Stop Mandatory Ethanol In Oregon, What can you do for your vehicle

Your vehicle insurance will not cover damage to your fuel system from ethanol!

If you own a vehicle that is more than three years old, and especially if it is much older, or you don't drive it much, especially if it sits outside, you might want to consider talking to your mechanic about E10. They probably won't know that E10 will be mandatory in all of Oregon soon, mine didn't until I asked both of them, but they may be able to give you some insight on what could happen to your car. If they can't, Google "ethanol problems". At a minimum you should consider having your mechanic change the fuel filter before you fill up with the first tank of E10, and then have them change the filter again after, at most, a couple of tanks, and see what is in the filter. If you are lucky, especially if the car isn't too old and is reasonably well maintained, there probably won't be much in there, but if there is, keep changing the fuel filter until there isn't anything and pray nothing else goes wrong in the meantime. I hope you have towing insurance.

Unfortunately if the car is fuel injected, the fuel pump is probably in the fuel tank, so if there is crud in the filter, it went through the fuel pump. Here is a good story about fuel pump problems and it isn't about an old car. Remember, ethanol is a solvent, not a lubricant; the fuel pump is lubricated by what passes through it.

If the car is much older, especially if it was built before about 1982, you could be in much worse shape. Not only do you have to worry about what is in your gas tank after the ethanol cleans it out, but other fittings, gaskets and O-rings in the fuel system may turn into unrecognizable matter when attacked by ethanol.

If you own a big old RV like I do, you are probably doomed. I bought it used so it has an unknown history of fuel purchases. It sits for long periods, outside, with the tank half empty. (Makes for a good water collector.) Not good. Short of replacing the fuel tank, there is no way to know what crud and how much water is in the bottom of the tank and what will be cleaned off the sides by the ethanol. I am just hoping the fuel filter can handle it, luckily the fuel pump is not in the tank. Of course the fuel filter costs about $75.00 a whack. And don't email me that ethanol will absorb the water in the fuel tank. Maybe it will, but probably it won't absorb all the water, and even if it does absorb the water, as it sits for long periods of time it will absorb more water until it is saturated, then it phase separates and I will have alcohol and water at the bottom of my tank, corroding it like mad. For some exciting reading Google "ethanol phase separation" especially you folks that live on the Oregon coast and you boaters.

You folks with boats are in the same boat, no pun intended. If you have an older boat with a built in fiberglass fuel tank(s), you could be in really deep yogurt. Be sure to read this. (The fiberglass problem includes some yachts. Considering that Washington also passed a similar mandatory E10 bill with no exceptions for marinas, I have fond visions of stranded, useless, expensive yachts in Puget Sound. It has happened elsewhere.) Also be aware that ethanol loves water. There are tons of articles on the Internet about that problem. The Coast Guard has this information for boaters that you should read before you fill up with your first tank of E10.

If you own any tools or vehicles with 2 cycle engines, and this includes boats again, if you are lucky all you will need is a tune-up, because ethanol will make your engine run leaner. Of course that can make the tool or boat hard to start, and I understand if the mixture setting is really bad, you may just burn up the engine. All of the other problems that apply to old engines and fuel systems, apply to old 2 cycle engines, especially ones that aren't used very often. The addition of ethanol will decrease the power output of your tools. Good luck on trying to get around that problem.

I had a very interesting discussion with the owner of the tool rental store in my town. He wasn't aware of the new law, but he said that Stihl had "dealt" with the ethanol problem in other states and they would ensure that Oregon had premium unleaded without ethanol available for 2 cycle tools.

Here is a first person account of what "phase separation" is like:

posted from the Kitfox Listmanager by "bjones@dmv.com".

I have had alcohol (and water) phase seperate out of ethanol blended gasoline. In multiple instances my engines quit running.

The the excess water joins with the alcohol and phase seperates from the gasoline resulting in a layer that would not sustain cumbustion.

This can occur when too much water is present in a tank from accumulated condensation or other cause. In the presence of excess water the 10 percent
ethanol in the gasoline can seperate out enmasse from the gasoline and settle to the bottom of the tank.

Inherent in this process is tricky little trap for an unwary pilot. When we pull a sample from our tank we can easily mistake the alcohol-water settleout
for gasoline. It looks like gas. The color difference may not be noticeable. The alcohol-water settleout is "thinner" than water and flows on a surface more like gas than water. And, because all of the ethanol tends to seperate out of the gasoline at once, the result is a large volume of alcohol in the bottom of the tank (about 10 percent of the total volume of fuel in the tank) so when we pull a sample from the sump all we get is the ethanol phase. We do not see a demarcation line between gas and water that we typically see when we pull a sample of gas that has some water contamination.

I poured some of the ethanol settleout into a couple of the funnels with the fine internal mesh filters that some of us use to prevent water from getting
into our tanks when we gas up from the ubiquitous 5 gallon can and was surprised to see that none of the funnels did not prevent the alcohol-water
settleout from passing thru.

I had discussions with technical folks from our multistate gasoline distribution plant and was impressed with the amount of problems they were
having with alcohol - gasoline phase seperation, customer and gas station problems as well as the remarkable steps they had to take to minimize settleout within their distribution network.

One question that I asked repeatedly without getting a solid answer was, "If settleout is close to occuring, can it be triggered in flight as we go to
altitude and outside air temperatures get colder?" Many physical and chemical equalibria shift with temperature change as the only variable.

For aircraft owners and pilots here is some further information provided by the EAA chapters of Oregon.

A number of classes of users are now exempted from the ethanol blending requirement. See the section on SB1079 but be aware that just because your class is exempted doesn't guarantee that you will be able to find unblended gasoline anywhere in the state of Oregon.

I urge you to call, email or write your legislators and ask them to repeal this law.

What Can You Do To Protect Your Vehicle?

Whether it is a car, RV, boat, airplane or tools.

Where is the media?


HOME ANOMALIES IMPLEMENTATION PACIFIC ETHANOL HB2210 SB1079 What Can You Do To Protect Your Vehicle? Whether it is a car, RV, boat, airplane or tools. Where is the media?

	Your vehicle insurance will not cover damage to your fuel system from ethanol! If you own a vehicle that is more than three years old, and especially if it is much older, or you don't drive it much, especially if it sits outside, you might want to consider talking to your mechanic about E10. They probably won't know that E10 will be mandatory in all of Oregon soon, mine didn't until I asked both of them, but they may be able to give you some insight on what could happen to your car. If they can't, Google "ethanol problems". At a minimum you should consider having your mechanic change the fuel filter before you fill up with the first tank of E10, and then have them change the filter again after, at most, a couple of tanks, and see what is in the filter. If you are lucky, especially if the car isn't too old and is reasonably well maintained, there probably won't be much in there, but if there is, keep changing the fuel filter until there isn't anything and pray nothing else goes wrong in the meantime. I hope you have towing insurance. Unfortunately if the car is fuel injected, the fuel pump is probably in the fuel tank, so if there is crud in the filter, it went through the fuel pump. Here is a good story about fuel pump problems and it isn't about an old car. Remember, ethanol is a solvent, not a lubricant; the fuel pump is lubricated by what passes through it. If the car is much older, especially if it was built before about 1982, you could be in much worse shape. Not only do you have to worry about what is in your gas tank after the ethanol cleans it out, but other fittings, gaskets and O-rings in the fuel system may turn into unrecognizable matter when attacked by ethanol. If you own a big old RV like I do, you are probably doomed. I bought it used so it has an unknown history of fuel purchases. It sits for long periods, outside, with the tank half empty. (Makes for a good water collector.) Not good. Short of replacing the fuel tank, there is no way to know what crud and how much water is in the bottom of the tank and what will be cleaned off the sides by the ethanol. I am just hoping the fuel filter can handle it, luckily the fuel pump is not in the tank. Of course the fuel filter costs about $75.00 a whack. And don't email me that ethanol will absorb the water in the fuel tank. Maybe it will, but probably it won't absorb all the water, and even if it does absorb the water, as it sits for long periods of time it will absorb more water until it is saturated, then it phase separates and I will have alcohol and water at the bottom of my tank, corroding it like mad. For some exciting reading Google "ethanol phase separation" especially you folks that live on the Oregon coast and you boaters. You folks with boats are in the same boat, no pun intended. If you have an older boat with a built in fiberglass fuel tank(s), you could be in really deep yogurt. Be sure to read this. (The fiberglass problem includes some yachts. Considering that Washington also passed a similar mandatory E10 bill with no exceptions for marinas, I have fond visions of stranded, useless, expensive yachts in Puget Sound. It has happened elsewhere.) Also be aware that ethanol loves water. There are tons of articles on the Internet about that problem. The Coast Guard has this information for boaters that you should read before you fill up with your first tank of E10. If you own any tools or vehicles with 2 cycle engines, and this includes boats again, if you are lucky all you will need is a tune-up, because ethanol will make your engine run leaner. Of course that can make the tool or boat hard to start, and I understand if the mixture setting is really bad, you may just burn up the engine. All of the other problems that apply to old engines and fuel systems, apply to old 2 cycle engines, especially ones that aren't used very often. The addition of ethanol will decrease the power output of your tools. Good luck on trying to get around that problem. I had a very interesting discussion with the owner of the tool rental store in my town. He wasn't aware of the new law, but he said that Stihl had "dealt" with the ethanol problem in other states and they would ensure that Oregon had premium unleaded without ethanol available for 2 cycle tools. Here is a first person account of what "phase separation" is like: posted from the Kitfox Listmanager by "bjones@dmv.com". I have had alcohol (and water) phase seperate out of ethanol blended gasoline. In multiple instances my engines quit running. The the excess water joins with the alcohol and phase seperates from the gasoline resulting in a layer that would not sustain cumbustion. This can occur when too much water is present in a tank from accumulated condensation or other cause. In the presence of excess water the 10 percent ethanol in the gasoline can seperate out enmasse from the gasoline and settle to the bottom of the tank. Inherent in this process is tricky little trap for an unwary pilot. When we pull a sample from our tank we can easily mistake the alcohol-water settleout for gasoline. It looks like gas. The color difference may not be noticeable. The alcohol-water settleout is "thinner" than water and flows on a surface more like gas than water. And, because all of the ethanol tends to seperate out of the gasoline at once, the result is a large volume of alcohol in the bottom of the tank (about 10 percent of the total volume of fuel in the tank) so when we pull a sample from the sump all we get is the ethanol phase. We do not see a demarcation line between gas and water that we typically see when we pull a sample of gas that has some water contamination. I poured some of the ethanol settleout into a couple of the funnels with the fine internal mesh filters that some of us use to prevent water from getting into our tanks when we gas up from the ubiquitous 5 gallon can and was surprised to see that none of the funnels did not prevent the alcohol-water settleout from passing thru. I had discussions with technical folks from our multistate gasoline distribution plant and was impressed with the amount of problems they were having with alcohol - gasoline phase seperation, customer and gas station problems as well as the remarkable steps they had to take to minimize settleout within their distribution network. One question that I asked repeatedly without getting a solid answer was, "If settleout is close to occuring, can it be triggered in flight as we go to altitude and outside air temperatures get colder?" Many physical and chemical equalibria shift with temperature change as the only variable. BJ For aircraft owners and pilots here is some further information provided by the EAA chapters of Oregon. A number of classes of users are now exempted from the ethanol blending requirement. See the section on SB1079 but be aware that just because your class is exempted doesn't guarantee that you will be able to find unblended gasoline anywhere in the state of Oregon. I urge you to call, email or write your legislators and ask them to repeal this law.